探索、利用、留存:Albert Cheng 怎样做订阅产品增长

原标题Explore, Exploit, Retain: How Albert Cheng Grows Duolingo, Grammarly and Chess.com-Style Subscription Products

在 Duolingo、Grammarly 和 Chess.com 带过增长的 Albert Cheng,讲他如何在探索新点子和吃透已验证的赢法之间来回切换,以及为什么现有用户留存才是会复利的杠杆。

ACAlbert Cheng嘉宾
频道
Lenny's Podcast
视频
1:25:25
阅读
1 分钟
原文
英语
在 YouTube 打开
往下滚动阅读时,视频会缩到右下角继续播放。字幕跟随阅读语言。
阅读语言共 2 种语言可读
简体中文目前只有摘要,下面的完整文稿是英语原文。
摘要

30 秒看懂

Albert Cheng 把增长看成在「找对山」和「专心爬山」之间振荡:探索新洞察,再把可复用的人性规律铺到全产品。他用 Chess.com 对局复盘和 Grammarly 把付费建议掺进免费体验两个案例说明,留存尤其是老用户和复活用户的留存,才是消费订阅能做大的前提。增长的工作是把用户接到产品价值上,一年一千次实验这个数字本身不重要,重要的是它逼出无代码页面、生命周期测试和应用商店实验这些系统能力。

  1. 1在探索和利用之间来回切换Cheng 把探索看成找对那座山,把利用看成集中资源往上爬;不显著实验变多,就是这条矿脉快挖干了的信号。
  2. 2Chess.com 把输棋后的对局复盘从展示失误改成展示精彩着法,复盘量涨了 25%,订阅涨了 20%,因为八成复盘发生在赢棋之后。
  3. 3Grammarly 把语气、清晰度这类付费建议抽样掺进免费体验,升级率几乎翻倍,免费用户这才看出它远不止改拼写。
  4. 4对消费订阅来说,用户留存就是金子:留不住人,就只能逼人第一天付钱。消费应用第一天留存在 30% 到 40%,算过得去的门槛。
  5. 5Cheng 认为增长的工作是把用户接到产品价值上,而不是纯刷指标;这个价值会随用户生命周期变化。
  6. 6一年一千次实验主要是强迫函数:真正有用的是讨论「要做到这个数字,哪些事必须为真」,例如无代码页面、生命周期测试和应用商店实验。
全文

按章节阅读完整文稿

01

音乐和增长共用同一套循环:重复、犯错、再创造

Albert Cheng grew up as a serious pianist, the eldest child of Taiwanese immigrants, practicing every day under a 90-minute countdown clock on top of the family's upright piano. Perfect pitch let him tell instantly whether he was playing correctly, and he seriously considered a music conservatory before choosing engineering school instead.

Looking back, he sees two parallels between music and growth. Both rely on consistent repetition with a very tight feedback loop, where you make mistakes constantly and learn through them. Both also have a structural layer (scales and theory in music; growth models, metrics, channels and experiments in growth) and a creative layer that needs passion and flow to produce something beautiful.

02

增长的引擎,是在探索和利用之间振荡

Cheng picked up the explore-and-exploit framework from his engineering partner at Grammarly and notes its roots in Brian Balfour's Reforge material. Exploration is finding the right mountain to climb; exploitation is concentrating resources on climbing it. Spend too long exploring and the team feels scattershot, with no through line; spend too long exploiting and you saturate, locally maximizing the same thing.

He applies it at the level of individual insights. At Chess.com, a PM working on game review, the post-game coach that critiques your moves, found that 80% of reviews happen after a win, contrary to the team's assumption that people would use it to study losses. After a loss, the product now shows your best moves with an encouraging coach message, which grew game reviews by 25%, subscriptions by 20% and retention substantially.

The insight then gets shared widely so that, for example, the puzzles PM can audit cold patterns in their own area and make success ratings, copy and button colors more positive. Cheng says typical experiment win rates run 30-50%, and even strongly losing experiments are valuable to surface. He also notes that wins in one area tend to be reusable, because human psychology often resonates across the whole product even when companies split it among many teams.

03

AI 已经在加快数据提问、原型和想点子的速度

Cheng's team runs roughly 250 experiments a year and invests in experiment explorer tools to spot patterns across hypotheses and learnings. A recent effort is a text-to-SQL Slack bot that answers ad hoc questions like how many subscribers there are in South Africa, doing the actual analysis rather than just returning a query. He also observes that tools like this unlock questions people would otherwise never ask because they feel embarrassed or don't want to bother an analyst.

On the product side, PMs use V0, designers use Figma Make, engineers use Cursor, Claude Code and GitHub Copilot, and Chess.com has built AI prototypes of core screens such as onboarding, home and the chessboard so anyone can layer ideas on top. His complaint is that the hand-off between tinkering and shipping is not yet seamless at their scale, so function hand-offs persist while they invest in design-system components and MCPs.

04

让免费用户尝到付费能力,Grammarly 的升级率几乎翻倍

Grammarly is freemium, with over 90% of users on the free plan. Cheng's team first had to instrument which suggestions users saw and how often they hit paywalls, and found that only a small share of free users accepted all their suggestions; most picked and chose. At the same time, the generative AI shift meant the free product still looked like a spelling-and-grammar fixer, since correctness suggestions were all free users saw.

The team therefore sampled various paid suggestions, such as tone and clarity rewrites, and interspersed them among free suggestions as a limited taste. The worry was that giving too much away would cut subscriptions; instead people saw Grammarly as a far more powerful tool and upgrade rates nearly doubled. Cheng calls it "a reverse free trial" that works in real time while writing rather than over time.

On freemium more broadly, he leans toward a permanently free core value proposition with a sampling of premium features layered on top. That fits mission-driven companies, supports word of mouth and network effects, and even helps Grammarly's team adoption. Reverse trials suit B2B products with lock-in, he says, while ordinary free trials tend to remain the norm for consumer products.

05

消费订阅靠的是留存,尤其是老用户和复活用户

Asked what indie developers miss about consumer subscriptions, Cheng answers that user retention is gold. Without it you must get people to pay on day one and pay to acquire them, whereas Duolingo and Chess.com grew as organic, word-of-mouth businesses in markets they expanded. He considers day-one retention of around 30-40% solid for a consumer app, though he says a lower figure makes it hard to acquire enough users mathematically to build a big daily active base.

As companies mature, he argues, the retention of the existing, habitual user base becomes the biggest lever, with the exception of products like Grammarly that you install and do not open daily, where activation and the aha moment matter most. At Chess.com, he says roughly 80% of active users are current users, with new and resurrected users making up the rest in roughly similar size.

Because mature products accumulate hundreds of millions of dormant users, the resurrection experience deserves real design attention. He cites Duolingo's social notifications when a friend starts the app and re-placement tests for returning learners who have forgotten what they knew. In his view such mechanics can deliver good ROI for a more mature company.

06

三家公司,三种完全不同的增长工作

Cheng says Duolingo stood out for a product-development ethos spread through the whole company, documented in a playbook called the Green Machine. It hires energetic people out of college, gives them excellent experimentation tooling and obsesses over clock speed; each user's experience changes multiple times a day, and product reviews take 10 to 15 minutes. He stresses that the process is rigid but the ideas, from memes to Super Bowl ads, are anything but.

Grammarly started as a paid product for students, became freemium for everyone and then layered on a managed enterprise motion, so Cheng's job included finding the teams and companies that sales and demand gen should approach. The core product experience, meaning the frequency and quality of suggestions, drove ongoing usage, so he eventually realized his growth team was getting in the way and handed that metric to the core product leader.

Chess.com is staffed by people fanatical about chess, globally remote, with Slack full of games and staff who dogfood constantly. Cheng argues that Duolingo's real origin was motivation and habit-building, with language only the first vehicle, and that Grammarly's superpower is being integrated across countless applications. His point is that there is no single right way, because all three companies are succeeding.

07

品牌、社区和病毒浪潮,会把实验堆出来的成果再放大

Cheng used to think brand marketing and growth experimentation were opposed, but now sees them combining as rocket fuel. At Duolingo he watched the owl gain a personality through push notifications and product experience, which the marketing team then amplified on TikTok and YouTube; on some days social channels drove 20-30% of new users in the self-reported "how did you hear about us" data.

Chess.com spent about 15 years under the radar until the pandemic, The Queen's Gambit, YouTube and Twitch streamers and kids playing in school changed everything about five years ago. Cheng describes experimentation as the slow-and-steady, continual-improvement engine, while occasional big waves can quadruple registrations overnight, and you would be a fool not to be ready to capture them.

08

棋和 AI 缠了几十年,AI 现在也在加快增长循环

Cheng points out that chess and AI have been intertwined for nearly a century, from early computing pioneers through IBM's Deep Blue beating Garry Kasparov in 1997. He says more people play chess now than ever, and that engines like Stockfish, rated around 3,600 on the Elo scale versus roughly 2,800 for Magnus Carlsen, are dramatically stronger than any human.

Chess.com's game review runs engines behind the scenes to evaluate every move, and then LLMs translate those evaluations into approachable language and speech with a personality. Cheng says the key is to keep the customer as North Star and apply the right technology to each feature rather than using LLMs just because they are the hot new thing, noting that LLMs themselves hallucinate chess moves and are poor at deep calculation.

For growth work specifically, Cheng says AI speeds up the experiment cycle: ChatGPT can summarize another person's analysis doc and suggest ideas to try, and visual prototyping makes bold exploratory ideas far cheaper to explore. PMs are not yet shipping code to production themselves, but the time from concept to something clickable has dropped dramatically.

09

增长是把用户接到价值上,实验则需要一套系统

Cheng defines growth's job as connecting users to the value of the product, pushing back on the reputation that growth is cold metrics hacking with paywalls and friction. Value changes over time, he says: what someone who is not yet a user needs to understand differs greatly from what a three-year habitual user needs, and teams should be organized around those journey stages.

His first experimentation tip is simply to start: he cites an Atlassian report saying 40% of product teams do not experiment, and says he is wrong often enough that skipping tests leaves opportunities on the table. Use a third-party tool or have engineers spin something up, and crawl, walk, run. He used Statsig at Grammarly, while Duolingo and Chess.com built in-house tools, but he does not recommend building in-house from day one.

10

从几乎零实验到一年一千次,系统比单次测试更要紧

Before 2023 Chess.com barely experimented; last year it ran about 50, this year it is on pace for about 250, and next year's target is 1,000. Cheng admits he made up the number, and says a thousand experiments without learning would be a waste. The value is in discussing what would need to be true to hit it.

Those conversations lead to experiments beyond product and engineering: lifecycle marketing copy for pushes and emails, app store screenshots and keywords, content marketing, and no-code configurable screens like the home and pricing pages. He also wants proper observability on progress. The culture shift, he says, depended on a CEO and co-founders, Erik and Danny, who were mentally flexible and preached product-led growth themselves.

The system matters as much as any single test: start from a growth model, instrument the product thoroughly, and trust your tooling carefully. At one company with an in-house tool, retention was configured backwards, so every positive result was actually negative. He adds that wins need to be celebrated, because people only buy in when they see the metrics move.

He also describes how Duolingo's virality work took a lean-in approach: the team temporarily tracked screenshots to find where users already shared, such as streak milestones, funny challenges and leaderboard promotions. It then staffed those moments with illustrators and animators to make them more delightful, which he says can be 5X or 10X growth drivers.

11

习惯设计、招有主动性的人,以及一款失败班车产品留下的课

On habit formation, Cheng describes a gamification model with three pillars: the core loop (a lesson, a reward, a streak and next-day notification), the metagame (Duolingo's path, leaderboards and achievements) and the profile as a reflection of your investment. At Chess.com, more than 75% of new users are beginners, fewer than a third win their first game, and losing makes retention 10% worse. The team is testing a gentler learn-to-play path for self-declared newcomers and hiding ratings for the first five games.

On teams, his counterintuitive lesson is that the best performers often have high agency and clock speed rather than deep domain experience, which can even become a crutch while AI forces people to discard learned habits. He reads those traits in the soft signals outside the interview itself: the questions candidates ask, whether they dug into the product, their references and energy. He also finds that he shines at medium-sized companies of roughly 500 to 1,000 people, 10 to 20 years old and still at inflection points.

For his failure story, Cheng recounts leading product at Chariot, the San Francisco commuter shuttle startup, where dynamic routing was a solution in search of a problem. The team also underweighted drivers and operations as users in a marketplace, and ran PR before validating demand, creating sunk-cost pressure. He closes by saying his own lessons mostly come from absorbing what others tried, like a mental sponge.

同频道的其他文章

1:10:27EN → 简体中文
Lenny's Podcast播客 · 2 人对谈硬技能让你进门,软技能决定你能走多远嘉宾 Jules Walter · 主持 Lenny RachitskyYouTube 产品负责人 Jules Walter 把 PM 能力拆成 IQ 与 EQ,并讲怎样用最小请求找到导师、把反馈变成习惯。产品与体验Product ManagementLeadership+3
1:30:46EN → 简体中文
Lenny's Podcast播客跳过「末日漏斗」:Cursor 招顶尖 50 人的打法主持 Lenny RachitskyCursor 人才负责人 Adam Ward 讲如何界定角色、画出全球大约 50 人的名单,再持续追他们,而不是招漏斗里活下来的人。企业与战略Company BuildingLeadership+3
1:42:04EN → 简体中文
Lenny's Podcast播客 · 2 人对谈先做生命体征测试,再谈把付费增长拧到最大嘉宾 Timothy Davis · 主持 Lenny RachitskyShopify 绩效营销负责人 Timothy Davis 讲何时开始买量、怎么做小测试、测哪些平台、看什么指标、以及先招什么样的人。企业与战略Go-to-MarketGrowth Strategy+3
1:21:44EN → 简体中文
Lenny's Podcast播客从划桨到掌舵:OpenAI 如何把 Agent 做成持久共事的同事主持 Lenny Rachitsky负责 Codex 与 ChatGPT Work 产品的 Tara Seshan 解释:当 Agent 负责划桨、人负责掌舵时,产品经理的工作会变成什么样。智能体Product StrategyAI Product Management+3
1:01:00EN → 简体中文
Lenny's Podcast播客 · 2 人对谈谁掌握注意力:Substack 如何按「控制权」做产品嘉宾 Sachin Monga · 主持 Lenny RachitskySubstack 产品负责人 Sachin Monga 讲路线图背后的原则、Recommendations 如何长成增长引擎,以及他认为互联网写作的下一阶段会怎样。产品与体验Product StrategyGrowth Strategy+3
1:26:22EN → 简体中文
Lenny's Podcast播客先从小处开始,再挣来自主权:五十多次企业 AI 落地教会他们的事主持 Lenny RachitskyAishwarya Naresh Reganti 和 Kiriti Badam 解释,为什么 AI 产品需要另一套构建流程,以及怎样一步步提高 Agent 自主权而不丢掉客户信任。产品与体验Product StrategyAI Product Management+3