Tiaohai Founder Ergou on Community and the Business of a Tavern

Ergou, founder of the Tiaohai tavern, recalls that its name came from friends jumping into Beijing’s Houhai lake after drinking. He connects the memory with the uncertainty and search for expression he felt in his twenties.

Zhang Xiaojun asks about Tiaohai’s locations and expansion. The guest’s store counts, plans and business figures reflect the time of recording.

Ergou recounts several ventures and the rise and fall of bike-sharing businesses. Watching funding, expansion and reversals at close range made him question a focus on valuation alone.

He describes building technology for coworking spaces and later selling the project for equity. By his account, the deal had a large headline value but brought no immediate cash.

After seeing businesses rise and fall, he wanted Tiaohai to become financially sustainable while retaining his view of urban life and communities of young people.

He describes reassessing work, relationships and whether to stay in Beijing around age 25. Uncertainty after early ventures mingled with gatherings, drinking and jumping into Houhai with friends.

The earliest space felt more like a gathering place for friends than a business plan. He says the first location, opened in 2019, closed because it lacked a business license.

The team then tried a shop within another shop and signed for a new space by Houhai just before the pandemic. The pandemic disrupted renovation and opening plans and changed how they engaged customers.

Ergou recalls online companionship, cooking and selling drinks during pandemic restrictions. In his view, connections among regulars made the tavern a community through an uncertain period.

He connects Tiaohai’s appeal with his perception that opportunities for social mobility had changed. This is his personal reading of the period and young people’s circumstances.

As the customer community grew, he drew on community-building ideas and invited active members to organize events. Recognition, discounts and access to new products helped connect the brand with its community.

He explains a guest bartender arrangement in which friends or community members work agreed shifts for base pay and a commission. Clear duties and compensation, he says, make the collaboration sustainable.

The tavern simplifies some service, such as asking customers to order at the bar rather than providing full table service. Ergou wants shift hosts to have room to share music, activities and their own style.

After the first location closed, he traveled and reconsidered the project. If the space was to last, he concluded, it needed a more developed business approach than a private gathering or art project.

Discussing a startup versus a business, he distinguishes realizing value through equity from sustaining operations through profit, while emphasizing the importance of mutual support in the community.

Zhang asks whether expansion could dilute the tavern’s culture. Ergou says the experience of guest bartenders matters and hopes visitors see the space as more than a photo opportunity.

After a long period of uncertainty, he says, the team wanted to encourage participation through small shared projects, such as a story that customers continue writing at the bar.

He describes admiring creators and early internet entrepreneurs who continue to travel, write and express their ideas even after leaving the industry’s center of attention.

Ergou describes parting ways with his original partners as the demands of expansion changed. The team rearranged interests and cooperation, and he says they remained in contact.

He discusses investment, rent and the operating model, arguing that costs must be understood and that city, size and format affect outcomes. The figures in the episode are examples from that time.

Asked how many locations he wants, he says expansion must account for whether the culture can survive it. He sees a public listing as a possible outcome rather than a substitute for business goals.

After several years of running locations, Ergou says he pays increasing attention to finances and management. He wants to cover costs and earn a profit while preserving the experience the tavern aims to create.

He describes the service principle as welcoming guests as one would welcome friends at home. Reducing standardized service can lower costs, but requires the team to pay attention to human interaction.

Ergou uses the phrase “standing on the reverse side” to describe the brand: engaging mainstream narratives while making room for people and communities at the margins. He hopes to preserve that tension as the business grows.

He discusses his interest in technology, new forms of organization and community, acknowledging a wish to be understood more widely while keeping his original perspective.

He sees emotion and business training as two sides of his work: expression and feeling matter, but so do spreadsheets, costs and organizational decisions.

The episode closes with Beijing’s Gulou cultural scene. Zhang adds that Ergou and his peers identify with an alternative culture while also wanting to see a wider world.