Ninety-eight percent of American politics is the money

Cenk Uygur tells Lex Fridman that corporatism, not left versus right, is the system that actually runs Washington — and that the only way out is to starve it of private cash.

CUCenk UygurInvitado
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Lex Fridman Podcast
Publicado
30 ago 2024
Vídeo
4:10:28
Lectura
25 min
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inglés
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RESUMEN

En 30 segundos

On a four-hour Lex Fridman conversation, Young Turks host Cenk Uygur argues that congressional votes follow donor money about 98 percent of the time, that what Americans call capitalism is often corporatism, and that communism fails for a colder reason than morality: a power vacuum always gets filled. He walks through Wolf-PAC and a state-called constitutional convention, the corporate media loop, Biden’s exit, Harris’s three acts, Trump’s fake-elector scheme, and a two-state deal he says is already sitting on the shelf. His operational advice is simple: follow the money, keep a ledger of predictions, and do not lose hope after the primary.

  1. 1Uygur compresses Washington into one ratio: politicians have money and a smidge of principles, not a 50-50 split. He will say 98-2 on television and refuse to walk it back.
  2. 2Communism, he says, is not mainly a moral failure. A flat power structure creates a vacuum, and human nature fills it with a dictator.
  3. 3Corporatism hates competition and wants monopoly; capitalism loves competition and wants free marketsThe carried-interest loophole, no-bid contracts, and a ban on negotiating drug prices are the same shell game.
  4. 4His most practical line of the night: once you clear a party primary, earned media can beat donor money. Trump already showed the path, Uygur says, then took it in the wrong direction.
  5. 5The media’s real bias is not left versus right. On economic bills, Fox News and MSNBC close ranks to protect corporations. Test a network against a specific fact, not a vibe.
  6. 6Hope, for him, is not a mood. It is the most dangerous thing in the world for elites, because two-thirds of people, in poll after poll, still want empathy, fairness, and change.
TRANSCRIPCIÓN

Lee la transcripción completa por capítulos

01

He compresses American politics into one number: 98 percent

Cenk Uygur opens with a map, not a slogan. Left versus right still exists, he tells Lex Fridman, but a second axis now sits on top of it: populist versus establishment. He places himself center-left on the first line and all the way toward the populist end of the second. Progressivism, in his telling, lives in that same square — populist, on the left, and not far-left. The job of a progressive is to keep expanding the circle of liberty, justice, and equality of opportunity: from propertied white men, to women, to people without property, to every race. Conservatives, he says, fight the expansion at every turn, which does not mean a conservative today wants to lock women out of the vote. It means the fight has moved to new contours, including undocumented immigrants, whom Uygur does not want to make instant citizens.

Fridman pushes on the size of government. Progressives, he notes, often seem readier to grow the state and regulate the individual. Uygur’s answer is the word he will repeat for four hours: balance. A preset ideology, left or right, is a refusal to think. Mainstream media, which he calls the matrix, has also invented a false middle. Joe Manchin gets labeled a moderate because he is a Democrat from West Virginia who will not touch guns. Look at the rest of the record, Uygur says: against paid family leave, which he cites at 84 percent support, against a higher minimum wage, for every corporate position that polls at 33 percent or less. Those people are not moderates. They are extremist corporatists.

The number arrives when Fridman asks how much money actually moves a politician. Uygur has heard the polite version on cable: maybe 10 percent. Even sympathetic people, he says, want 50-50 — half principle, half cash. He will not give them that. It is money plus a smidge of principles, which is why he insists on 98-2. Later he will apply the same ratio to legislation, to Biden’s dependence on donors, and to the share of Congress he calls corrupt. Lex keeps asking him to steel-man the other side. Uygur tries. He does not really succeed, and he knows it.

02

Communism fails because a power vacuum always gets filled

Uygur draws a spectrum with four named regions. Communism sits on the far left, corporatism on the far right, and capitalism in the middle. Socialism, he warns, is not a synonym for communism, and people who mash the two together are already lost. Communism means the state owns the property and private ownership is forbidden. His verdict is blunt enough to annoy his own side: it makes no sense, it is opposed to human nature, it never works, and it always evolves into dictatorship. He asks for patience. He promises to annoy the other side next.

The reason he gives is structural, not moral. Tell a society there is no hierarchy, that power is a flat line and everyone is equal, and you have created a vacuum. Someone stands up — “usually one guy,” Uygur says — and takes it. Fridman restates the point in his own words: the workable design is not to abolish power, but to keep it rotating under election and constraint. Uygur says that is exactly it. The romantic version of communism, in which everyone works as hard as they can and takes only what they need, has no example in human history. Wishing it into DNA does not put it there.

03

Corporatism is the ideology that hates competition

The second shell game, Uygur says, was swapping corporatism in for capitalism and keeping the old label. Corporatism is corporations slowly taking over the system, building monopoly and oligopoly, and snuffing out equality of opportunity. Capitalism loves competition. Corporatism wants to kill it. His first exhibit is the carried-interest loophole: hedge-fund and private-equity managers take “2 and 20,” and the 20 percent profit share is labor income that should be taxed at the top rate. The loophole taxes it near 20 percent. A regular worker, he says, crosses that rate at about $84,000 a year. Billionaires and a middle-class salary land in the same bracket. That is not a free market. That is a rewritten rule.

He stacks the rest of the list in the same voice: mergers waved through until a few firms dominate, corporate tax rates driven down, no real minimum wage, no universal health care, no-bid contracts in the Iraq War, and a government forbidden to negotiate drug prices. “What part of capitalism is a no-bid contract?” he asked when Dick Cheney started handing them out. A customer who must pay whatever a corporation charges is, in his phrase, communism for corporations. Fridman objects to the bucket. Pharma, insurance, oil and gas look worse than a company that simply builds a better product. Uygur agrees that firms are not “guilty” for wanting lower taxes and lower labor costs. That instinct is rational. The government’s job, reading Adam Smith the way he reads him, is to protect the market from monopoly. If you do not, you do not have a free market.

He then splits the bucket twice more. Small business is not big business; he runs one, and exemptions below a headcount can be sane. What is not sane is a party that claims to speak for small business and then hands the largest oil companies $30 billion in subsidies. And it is not that some industries are more evil. They are better at lobbying. The top donor in Washington, he says, is not AIPAC, oil, or the banks. It is big pharma. His water-bottle parable is the one that sticks: a dollar bottle becomes a hundred-dollar bottle at Medicare, and the government says thank you, sir. Tesla getting boxed out by state dealer laws, Facebook going quiet after it hired Republican consultants, Trump flipping on TikTok after money from Jeff Yass — those are the same auction, just at different scales.

04

Get the private money out, or nothing else will hold

Uygur’s name for the alternative is democratic capitalism, set against Bernie Sanders’s democratic socialism. You need cops on the street and cops on Wall Street, he says, because insider trading is just robbery with better clothes. Regulation is not a dirty word; it is a law. Matt Stoller’s line is the one he likes: if someone asks how big a pipe you want, the only honest answer is that it depends on the job. Six elevator inspections a year at his father’s New Jersey shop was too many. Zero, his father told him, is how elevators fall in Turkey. Twice a year was the bound of reason. The people who write those bounds, though, are politicians. In this structure Uygur thinks they are usually the worst of us, because their core talent is serving the donor class.

That is why he started Wolf-PAC: to use Article V and push states to call a convention that can propose amendments the Supreme Court cannot kill. He named it Wolf because everyone he knew in Washington would hate it. The polite name would have been Americans for America. He wanted the opposite signal: we are coming for you, democratically. The amendment he wants has two jobs. End private financing of elections and move to public financing, with signature thresholds and small-dollar donations under about $100, because whoever signs the check is who you work for. End corporate personhood — not corporations themselves, which he would never abolish, but the fiction that they hold a citizen’s constitutional rights. The Boston Tea Party, he reminds Fridman, was aimed at the British East India Company.

Congress will not propose that amendment. Two-thirds of a body that got there by raising more money than the other guy will not vote to fire its own patron. The founders left a second door: two-thirds of the states can call a convention, then three-quarters must ratify. That last step is brutal. Uygur’s bet is the one issue that already polls as a near-consensus. He says 93 percent of Americans believe politicians serve their donors, not their voters. Wolf-PAC got five states and then, he says, the Democratic Party beat them back. Why has no billionaire populist, including Trump, run and won on this? Trump’s answer, as Uygur ventriloquizes it, is simple: why would I be a sucker? Miriam Adelson writes a check, oil writes a check, and the swamp stays wet. MAGA, he says, has not held him to the slogan that won in 2016.

Fridman keeps trying to save the politician as a human being. Most people have integrity; money is a slow slope; term limits could swap them out before the rot sets. Uygur grants the slope. Biden arrived talking anti-corruption and left as “the senator from MBNA.” Kyrsten Sinema arrived as a progressive who refused PAC money and became, in his account, the most corporatist voice in the Senate. He will not grant term limits as the fix. The incentive is still there for the next class. In congressional races, the candidate with more money wins about 95 percent of the time — it dipped to 87.5 percent when Justice Democrats were winning — and the 5 percent who sneak through get primaried until the filter has done its work. The presidential race is the exception, because earned media can swamp paid media. Hillary Clinton out-raised Trump roughly two-to-one in 2016 and still lost. Clear the primary, Uygur says, and you can ignore the donors, bully both parties, and even take the money out. That is why he still has hope.

05

The media’s real bias is pro-corporate, not left versus right

Why would newsrooms defend this? First, Uygur says, they are themselves giant corporations in an oligopoly of about six firms, and some of them — GE owning MSNBC during the Iraq War — make more money from defense than from journalism. News becomes marketing for the war. Second, and maybe more important, is where campaign cash actually goes. The 2022 midterms, with no presidential race, still spent a figure he calls a ridiculous $17 billion, almost all of it into television, newspapers, and radio. TYT reporter David Shuster once filed a money-in-politics story at a local NBC station. The editor spiked it, put an arm around his shoulders, walked him into the newsroom, and said, “You see all this? Money in politics paid for that.”

The ads work, Uygur says, but that is not the main reason you buy them. You buy them to purchase friendly coverage from the same outlet. Every network knows the two parties are top clients. Insiders get a pass. Outsiders get their faces ripped off. Sometimes the pressure is explicit: as an MSNBC host he wrote a script criticizing a company, management demanded pre-approval, and the compromise was to move the company lower in the rundown, not cut it. More often it is implicit. Ashleigh Banfield, then a rising star, gave a Kansas speech about the real cost of Iraq. GE-owned MSNBC took her off the air, refused to release her from the contract, and moved her office into a closet that the whole building could see. “The closet is the memo.”

The left-leaning-journalist story, he argues, is real only on social issues, and even there it is a bias toward equality: Black civil rights in the 1960s, later gay marriage. The right yelled “bias” both times, and in a narrow sense it was. The main event is economic. Predict it in advance, he tells viewers, then watch. On anti-price-gouging and on a higher minimum wage, MSNBC hosts, CNN, a *Washington Post* op-ed, and Fox News suddenly agreed: do not touch the beloved corporations. Stephanie Ruhle’s on-air attack on wage hikes is his exhibit. Tech is a different fight. Coders may write left assumptions into products, but the louder war is incumbent media trying to kneecap a competitor, waving a random YouTube clip at advertisers while television runs something he calls “MILF Island.”

06

Meritocracy is the goal, and the culture war is the decoy

Uygur loves meritocracy and does not believe the country has one. Equality of results is a far-left demand he rejects: the person who works four times harder should not take the same salary as the person who will not try. Fairness matters. His father went from a dirt farm on the Syrian border of Turkey — no electricity, saddled with debt after a grandfather died — to mechanical engineering because 1960s Turkey gave the top 15 percent a free college education if they tested in. Two companies followed, in Turkey and then in America. Employees hugged that man in the street decades later. The lesson Uygur took is not “eat the rich.” It is that talent is a genetic lottery spread across poor kids, and a country that refuses them a fair chance is both immoral and economically stupid.

Affirmative action, he says, was necessary in the 1960s, when firefighting and longshore jobs were a white-guy closed shop. By the late 1980s he hated it on principle. He is a minority — Turkish, raised Muslim, now an atheist — and he would not check an ethnicity box for college because he wanted to earn the seat. In law school a right-wing classmate looked at a Black student at Columbia and wondered how he got in. That, Uygur says, is the poison: it devalues every minority accomplishment and, if you never phase it out, becomes a caste system. DEI in some places has swung too far. Canceling AP classes in a California school because Latino students lagged is, to him, authoritarian, not progressive. The job is to lift the students, not flatten the ceiling.

Culture war is how the people at the top keep the rest busy. Trans people have had TYT’s defense for twenty years; Biden coming out for gay marriage in 2013 was “comically late.” Uygur still will not pretend a trans woman in professional boxing or MMA is a small thing. Give LeBron James every hormone blocker on earth, he says, and he still dominates the WNBA. Say that out loud and some people call you a Nazi, because a besieged tribe thinks any inch lost is death. The right, meanwhile, treats a handful of high-school track races in a country of 330 million as the crime of the age, then follows Tucker Carlson into segments about sexy M&Ms. Money remains the biggest problem. The two-percenters on each side are useful noise for the people writing the checks.

07

Trump’s fake-elector scheme is a coup; the steel-man is a sliver of chance

Asked for his top criticisms of Donald Trump, Uygur starts where Fridman starts: the fake-elector scheme. January 6, he says, was not a plan to hold the building. It was a delay. Delay certification, manufacture chaos, let House Republicans say they do not know who won, and kick the question back to states that already had alternate slates ready. Half of Trump’s own electors refused to pretend he had won, so the campaign recruited Republicans who would sign. That signature is fraud, which is why people are being prosecuted. Two slates reach the House, the House decides by state delegation rather than by members, and Republicans then controlled more states. That is how you lose the election and still get installed. “A frontal assault on democracy,” Uygur calls it, and he will not take the risk.

He will not grant the “rigged votes” story either. Changing ballots is a massive crime, easy to get caught doing, and he has not seen evidence of it in his lifetime, including in the 2016 Bernie primary. The Heritage Foundation, hunting voter fraud, still landed on a rate he cites as 0.0000006 percent — on the order of 31 cases over a decade or two. The real rigging, he says, happens before Election Day: purging rolls in Black precincts, starving those precincts of voting booths, and above all gerrymandering, which lets politicians pick their voters. Democrats do the third. Corporate media does a fourth, by simply not putting outsiders on the air. Bernie Sanders got seven seconds on ABC in 2015 while climbing toward 48 percent. RFK Jr. sat at 20 percent in a primary and 12 in a general and received no town hall and no debate.

The steel-man, when Fridman demands it, is real and narrow. Trump killed Qasem Soleimani, a move Uygur says risked a war with a country four times Iraq’s size. Iran answered with a small bombing — a face-saving shot — and the military-industrial complex wanted a large one back. Trump said no. That, Uygur calls his shining moment. He also dragged Republican voters out of the Dick Cheney church of war, even if Trump himself is not anti-war. On Ukraine, Uygur thinks only Trump ends the war, because he will tell Kyiv the aid stops without a deal and will hand Moscow the three additional regions it wants. Fridman disagrees: he thinks Trump wants to pat Putin on the back and beat him at the table. Uygur’s reply is colder. Trump does not love Russia. He loves whoever writes the check, the way he likes Saudi Arabia or Israel. The business analogy is the closer. Would you hire this man as CEO of your company? An 80 percent chance he blows it up is not a hire. A country should not take that bet either. MAGA, he adds, should be the faction that hates him most. He hijacked a real populist revolt for personal gain.

08

Biden was forced out by the donors, and he still had to sign the letter

A year before the withdrawal, Uygur was already saying Biden had a zero percent chance. The method was the same one that made him predict Trump in 2016 on an ABC panel that laughed out loud: look at real people, then look at the polls. Real people, in his definition, are not employed in politics or media and are not fighting on Twitter. At barbecues, Democrats said “too old” almost in unison. In the middle of Ohio he had driven hundreds of miles without a Hillary sign. Biden was polling in the 30s; no incumbent in the 30s, Uygur says, has come back. Then Trump led with Latinos, then with young voters, then cut into Black voters. MSNBC, meanwhile, was selling a dynamo behind the scenes. Uygur treated that as an SNL sketch.

TYT launched Operation Hope and let paying members vote on whether he should primary Biden. The tally was 76 to 24: go. He is not native-born and he is a talk-show host the establishment despises, so he hired, or tried to hire, the top booking agent in New York. The man took no fee, made the calls, and came back with the news: banned at CNN, banned at MSNBC, probably banned at Fox. Uygur went anyway. If you think the ship is hitting an iceberg, you rush the wheel. He said “too old, in the 30s, cannot win” on every show that would have him, including *The Breakfast Club*. Charlamagne tha God agreed, then said it to Jon Stewart, and Stewart cut a segment. Axelrod, Carville, Nate Silver, Ezra Klein, Bill Maher, even Nancy Pelosi — people Uygur often loathes — were, independently, pointing at the same numbers. The debate did not introduce the idea that Biden was too old. It confirmed it.

Was the exit forced or voluntary? Both. No one believes a man who wants a second term woke up and donated his legacy. The decisive pressure, Uygur says, was not Pelosi or Obama. It was the donors. Bernie and Thomas Massie draw power from people. Biden is the donors’ candidate; he had told them nothing would fundamentally change. When they stopped writing checks, he had no remaining option. He still had to make the decision himself. Fridman wished for a Washington-style walk-away from strength, a great speech, then a real contest. Uygur had already made that case, ten months earlier, to one of Biden’s inner-circle advisers: drop now and Democrats build statues; stay and you become the villain who hands the country back to Trump. Hero or villain was a choice. Hero *and* winner was not.

Uygur wanted that walk-away to open a real primary. If Biden had stepped down while the race was still alive, governors — Tim Walz, Andy Beshear, Gretchen Whitmer — could have run with Harris, and he and Dean Phillips would have dropped out because their only point was to force that field. Democrats, he says, love to anoint. They anointed Hillary Clinton. They anointed Biden for 2024. Obama, Pelosi, and Chuck Schumer then declined to endorse Harris on night one, which shocked him; Biden’s first withdrawal letter omitted her, and a second letter had to be issued. She locked the delegates in two days, state by state on Zoom. Uygur knows because he had been running and the delegates were calling him. A normal Democrat, he says, bungles that. Hillary would have assumed she was queen. Elementary politics, done correctly, counted as a big win for this party.

09

Bernie would not throw the punch; AOC got tired of being uncomfortable

Fridman loves Bernie Sanders the way Uygur does: a genuine person, rare enough that Uygur reaches for Diogenes and the honest man. In 2013, two years early, Uygur cut a video saying Sanders could beat Hillary Clinton in a primary, because the country was dying for an honest populist. Strategy is where the affection frays. In the 2016 Brooklyn debate Sanders was asked whether bank money had affected Clinton’s votes and said no. Uygur wanted the bankruptcy bill on the table: she had opposed it as First Lady and flipped as a senator after taking banker cash. In 2020 Sanders won the first three states, crushed Nevada, and needed South Carolina. His team prepared attacks on Biden that were political, not personal. He walked to the podium and did not throw them. “Too damn nice,” Uygur says. Then Biden took office, used Sanders for credibility, and stripped out the $15 wage, the public option, paid family leave. Sanders co-signed because he thought they were friends. Biden got 15 percent of a progressive agenda through, three times Obama’s 5 percent, and called it alliance.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a harder conversation, and Uygur knows it will land as a betrayal. He is a Justice Democrats co-founder. TYT made 34 videos for her 2018 race, more coverage than the rest of the press combined, and the audience, as Ryan Grim later documented, raised about $2.5 million for that progressive slate. After she won, she hired Saikat Chakrabarti — who had left the group’s top job to run her campaign, a bet Uygur still calls one of the smarter moves in recent American politics — as chief of staff, and Corbin Trent as communications director. Within six months both were gone. The story Uygur heard is that they had insulted a corporatist colleague who was selling out a policy. If you never call out your own side, you get nothing. If you do, you become persona non grata. He thinks she chose comfort. He also grants the exceptions: Palestine, Cori Bush on the Capitol steps over evictions, the original sit-in in Nancy Pelosi’s office, when they were still on the same team.

The strategic sin, for him, is picking the hardest fight first. After 2020, some progressives wanted to “force the vote” on Pelosi’s speakership to extract Medicare for All. No alternative speaker, and the most difficult bill in the pile. Uygur wanted a win that already polled above 70 percent — $15 an hour, paid family leave — then another, then Medicare for All. That is not corporate gradualism. It is leverage. When Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema carved Build Back Better to pieces, the left’s move, in his script, was two or three Biden-promised items over 70 percent, and a no if they were missing. The press would have called them the scum of the earth. You have to survive that blast. The strategy they chose instead had a name he still spits: Trust Biden.

10

Harris has had three acts, and Walz was the tell

He splits her career into three stylistic acts, not three ideologies. Act one, through the first 2019 primary debate, is a competent politician on an Obama track: district attorney, attorney general, senator, and the bus-line that landed on Biden’s old segregation record. “That little girl was me.” Act two, from that debate until Biden’s exit, is a wreck. Medicare for All became Medicare for some. Tulsi Gabbard beat her up on the next two stages. She left before Iowa, which is why Uygur likes to say he has more presidential votes than she does. Biden hung immigration around her neck without giving her policy. Then came the interviews he calls word salad. Act three shocked him. The speeches got good. The economic pitch — housing, grocery prices — was the correct populist targeting, “real or not real.” And she picked Walz.

The vice-presidential choice is the bellwether. Hillary’s Tim Kaine was prevent defense, wallpaper, white noise; Uygur marked the race lost that night. Mark Kelly would have been the Kaine equivalent: an astronaut, a corporate Democrat, and, in Uygur’s ear, like watching grass grow. He had been lobbying for Josh Shapiro, a Pennsylvania populist with a politician’s polish, because he did not believe Harris would choose someone as populist as Walz. She did. Fridman had already noticed the TikTok operation taking risks Democrats never take. Credit Harris, Uygur says. She is the final decision-maker. At the time of taping he had her at about a 55 percent chance, not a ten-point win, with three bogeys still live: the establishment smell, a regional war in the Middle East, and a relapse into word salad. He also predicts, on the record, that she will not raise the corporate tax. Trump took it from 35 to 21. Biden promised 28, bargained to 25 with Manchin, and left it at 21. “Hear me now, quote me later.”

11

Outsiders get the needle; insiders get the haystack

Uygur knew Robert F. Kennedy Jr. a little before the campaign, as an environmental lawyer who spent a career suing fossil-fuel companies and defending towns with poison in the river. He does not hate the personal circus — the dead bear in Central Park, the parasite mentioned in a divorce deposition. He has a friend whose father died in his arms at eighteen, and that friend’s motto is “what is lived cannot be unlived.” Kennedy’s father was murdered when Kennedy was young. Uygur can dislike the episodes and still understand the software. What angers him is the coverage. For insiders, the press picks the best of the haystack: Joe Biden as average Joe from Scranton after 52 years in Washington; Fred Thompson’s red pickup, which he reached by limousine, because he was a corporate Republican the cameras liked. For outsiders — Trump, Bernie, Kennedy, Uygur himself — they hunt needles.

When Uygur ran for Congress in 2020, the *New York Times*, the *Los Angeles Times*, and CNN accused him of a long history of anti-Muslim rhetoric and folded in the usual anti-Semitism charge. They did not mention that he grew up in a Muslim family. The source was a joke about Orthodox Jews and Muslims treating heaven as a fashion show, the creator of the universe inspecting coats and skullcaps. A bestiality bit from a dozen years earlier was cut before the punchline in which the horse objects; Jake Tapper amplified the edit, and the *Times* implied the joke was an agenda. An interview with David Duke in which Uygur called him an anti-Semite, a racist, a bigot, and an idiot became, in print, a platform. The *Times* issued a correction on that one. Kennedy is not the point, Uygur says. The method is. If they cannot find a needle, they will cut the tape.

He applies the same hardware-and-software frame to himself. At Penn in the 1990s he publicly denied the Armenian genocide. Growing up Turkish meant a parade chant that Turkey was the biggest country on earth, and a third-grade lesson that Turks had lost only one war. An American officer he remembers as Colonel Chester had written that Armenians returned from the forced marches “fat and entirely un-massacred.” A kid treated that as evidence. An adult sees a man angling for a Turkish contract. Working for nearly eighteen years beside Ana Kasparian, who is Armenian, he finally recognized the shape of the propaganda. A Turk and an Armenian hosting the country’s top online news show is, he says, the beauty of America. The test he wants everyone to run is crude and empirical. Alex Jones spent the Obama years promising FEMA camps. The camps did not arrive. Morning Joe said Biden was for a $15 wage; Biden took it out of the bill. Third time a prediction fails, change the channel.

12

The peace deal is on the shelf, and hope is what elites fear

If the parties wanted peace, Uygur says, the paper is already written. The Saudis agreed. Israelis and Palestinians initially agreed. Hamas, in his account, has in some form agreed. Israel leaves the West Bank and Gaza, keeps a slice of settlements that has grown from 4 percent to 6 percent and is still climbing, and Palestinians drop a full right of return except for a symbolic handful of families. He knows Palestinians will call that unfair. They have no leverage, he tells them, and Israel will not invite millions of voters who would end the Jewish state. The blocker in plain sight is Benjamin Netanyahu, who says out loud that he does not want a Palestinian state. Uygur calls him one of the worst terrorists of his lifetime. Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir talk about driving Palestinians into other Arab countries, which is the definition of ethnic cleansing.

You do not negotiate with friends, he says. You negotiate with enemies. A path that skips Hamas is a deal with Fatah that delivers not just a ceasefire but a state, so Fatah can enter Gaza as heroes instead of as the occupier’s partner and then push Hamas out. Egypt already proved a cold peace can hold: Israel gave back the Sinai after a real war, and there has not been a bomb from Egypt since. The American lever is even simpler. If a U.S. president said the funding stops, Uygur and Fridman agree Netanyahu’s government would shake. AIPAC’s roughly $100 million this cycle, against $26 billion in return, is why no one says it. Fridman wonders whether Trump is the only person crazy enough to use that lever. Uygur allows a 12 percent chance of the good surprise and an 80 percent chance of the opposite: the West Bank gifted to Israel, or a war with Iran to prove whose button is larger. Again, the CEO test. You would not hire that risk.

What gives him hope about the species is a ratio he sees in almost every country’s polling: two-thirds want empathy, sharing, equality, justice; one-third says me. The one-third wins often because selfishness, on average, accumulates money and power. He is a “stone cold atheist” who thinks humans are apes, not a bit like apes, and that higher apes — chimpanzees, bonobos, people — are wired for consent. A bonobo becomes alpha by grooming, by sharing a hunt, by collecting the consent of the governed, not by beating the troop. Conservatives still have a job. You need a Churchill in a world war and someone to say six elevator inspections is too many. They are, he says, assigned to lose in the long run, because they are fighting change in a world that will not sit still. Civil rights, women’s rights, gay rights: every snapshot feels like a loss, and the tide still comes in.

The last pages of his book are for conservatives. Inside the wagon they have real empathy — family, church, town. They also string electric fences for anyone outside. He wants the left’s wagon wider. If that side wins, it will not pass Medicare for the left or a raise for the left. It will pass them for the people who voted no. When Charlie Kirk or Patrick Bet-David nod at paid family leave, take the win instead of banishing a 98 percent ally over a 2 percent fight. His mother’s family name, Yavaşça, means “slowly.” Family lore says an ancestor, the Ottoman admiral at Constantinople, proposed dragging the fleet over greased planks around the chain in the Bosphorus. Every day Mehmed asked for a progress report. Every day the answer was slowly. One night the ships were in the middle of the water. Change, Uygur says, happens really gradually, and then all at once. That is Operation Hope, Wolf-PAC, and twenty-two years of TYT against a debate night that only mattered because the ground was already laid. “Hope is the most dangerous thing in the world for the elites.”

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Lex Fridman· 26 ago 2026Pódcast · 2 vocesDHH Did Not Write a Line of Omarchy QuattroInvitado: DHH · Presenta: Lex FridmanThirteen months after a skeptical conversation with Lex Fridman, the Rails creator describes how Opus 4.5, a swarm of coding agents, and a one-minute Linux installer ended his era of hand-chiseled Ruby.Agentes de programaciónVibe CodingIngeniería de agentes+3
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Lex Fridman· 12 ago 2026Pódcast · 2 vocesOne Cold Shower, Twenty Champions: How Khabib Nurmagomedov Was ForgedInvitado: Khabib Nurmagomedov · Presenta: Lex FridmanIn a Makhachkala school gym, seventy men shared one shower, and the water was only cold.Martial ArtsCombat SportsCoaching+3
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Lex Fridman· 28 jul 2026Pódcast · 2 vocesIf You Take Slavery Out of the Picture, There Is No Civil WarInvitado: Gary Gallagher · Presenta: Lex FridmanIn 1860, enslaved people were worth more than every railroad and factory in the United States combined.Political PhilosophyLeadershipHistory
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Lex Fridman· 30 jun 2026Pódcast · 2 vocesForty-Six Percent of Emperors Were Overthrown. The Empire Lasted AnywayInvitado: Anthony Kaldellis · Presenta: Lex FridmanHistorian Anthony Kaldellis walks Lex Fridman through 2,200 years of Roman history and argues that what we call Byzantium was Rome itself.Political PhilosophyGeopoliticsLeadership
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Lex Fridman· 29 may 2026Pódcast · 2 vocesThe Moon Is Falling. It Just Keeps Missing.Invitado: Biggest Mysteries in Physics · Presenta: Lex FridmanFermilab physicist Don Lincoln tells Lex Fridman that the history of physics is a history of unification, and that antimatter, dark energy, and a theory of everything still sit far beyond the experiments we can run.Quantum MechanicsScience CommunicationPhilosophy of Science