Caroline Downey on WNBA disputes and women’s sports categories

Shabbos Kestenbaum asks how Title IX, the US law prohibiting sex discrimination in federally funded education, was interpreted under the Biden administration and how the current administration approaches enforcement. He cites litigation and allegations concerning a court injunction.

Caroline Downey says the Biden administration’s interpretation extended protections to gender identity. She opposes including transgender women in women’s sports categories and argues that schools faced pressure over their policies.

Downey argues that sex-based categories exist because of physical differences relevant to athletic competition. She presents her view as a reason for maintaining separate categories.

Kestenbaum asks how she responds to critics who say few athletes are affected. Downey says that even a small number matters and cites a UN report’s medal estimate; she also points to scholarships and other opportunities.

Downey connects the sports debate to other institutions. Drawing on her reporting on prisons, she describes allegations she encountered from incarcerated women and argues for sex-based separation there as well.

Kestenbaum turns to Caitlin Clark and asks why the basketball player has attracted such attention and whether the WNBA has treated her fairly. Downey argues that Clark brought a large audience and new commercial interest to the league.

Downey interprets some reactions among other players as resentment over the attention Clark receives. She thinks the league faces a difficult balance between acknowledging Clark’s influence and recognizing the contributions of other players.

She argues that the response to fouls against Clark has been inadequate and that the league risks alienating the audience she brought. These are Downey’s assessments of the league’s conduct.

Kestenbaum asks whether the attention around Clark and Angel Reese reflects race, rivalry or jealousy. He frames the question around their public rivalry and the physical play he has observed.

Downey argues that media coverage has added a racial narrative to the rivalry. She disputes a columnist’s characterization of Clark’s complaints and says Clark has publicly expressed support for fair treatment of everyone in the league.

The host describes an exchange between Seattle Storm minority owner Celeste Keaton and two teenage fans wearing shirts associated with a sex-based sports campaign. He asks Downey what the episode says about the league’s approach to women.

Downey argues that separate women’s categories are intended to support fair competition. She criticizes the confrontation and sees it as part of a wider disagreement over how the league should respond to athletes and fans.

Kestenbaum quotes Indiana Fever player Sophie Cunningham’s comments opposing the participation of people she described as biological men in women’s sports. He asks why the issue remains divisive despite his view that many Americans favor sex-based categories.

Downey attributes some support for transgender inclusion to what she calls excessive empathy and argues that it conflicts with sex-based protections. She also criticizes the way she believes league leaders have handled the debate.

The conversation moves from sports to work and family. Kestenbaum asks about writer Brittany Hugoboom’s argument that technology and remote work can change the trade-offs between employment and motherhood.

Downey says remote and hybrid work can offer women greater flexibility, including part-time work while raising children. She argues that both a career and parenting require time and attention that cannot each receive a person’s full capacity simultaneously.

She proposes thinking in seasons: a parent might devote more time to children when they are young and shift toward paid work as they grow older. Technology, she says, can make different arrangements more practical.

Kestenbaum asks how Downey defines feminism and whether it empowers women today. He cites a critique that distinguishes femininity from feminism and questions the movement’s effects on family life.

Downey says the movement’s original public aim was equal rights, but argues that contemporary feminism has adopted an adversarial view of men. This is her interpretation of the movement and its development.

She links the current dating climate to her concerns about the handling of allegations against men, saying that she believes fear of accusation has discouraged some men from approaching women. She offers this as her explanation of a broader social change.

Downey says she sees distrust and political distance between young men and women. She questions whether people who support feminism will ultimately regard those relationship difficulties as a desirable outcome.

She also argues that dating apps reward superficial judgments, while acknowledging that some users meet and marry through them. She cites her brothers’ and friends’ experiences when discussing the difficulties she sees.

Kestenbaum closes by encouraging dating, marriage and family. He identifies Downey as a National Review commentator and a senior fellow at Independent Women’s Forum.