Jordan Jonas Won Alone Season 6 Without Losing a Pound

The survivalist tells Lex Fridman how a moose, a wolverine, freight trains, and a year with Evenki herders taught him to hunt, to wait, and to stay a candle when the woods go quiet.

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Lex Fridman Podcast
Publicado
21 jul 2024
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2:46:20
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21 min
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inglés
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RESUMEN

En 30 segundos

Jordan Jonas lasted 77 days on Alone Season 6 and walked out at his ordinary weight, with hundreds of pounds of moose and fish still cached and a private target of 130 or 140 days. In a long conversation with Lex Fridman he traces that calm back through a missed moose, a stolen jug of fat, a year riding freight trains, trapping sable with a man named Yura, and grandparents who survived the Assyrian genocide and Nazi-occupied France. The through-line is not toughness for its own sake: he argues that tools and calories only take you so far, and that the real work is choosing a reason to keep going.

  1. 1He left the Arctic at his normal walking-around weight, with a couple hundred pounds of moose and about a hundred pounds of fish still on hand. In his head the contest had not even started until day 130 or 140.
  2. 2After the first moose walked off, he did not mope. He borrowed a Siberian idea, built a funnel fence, and treated failure as a muscle you have to keep using.
  3. 3Rabbit starvation is realTwenty-eight rabbits in the first twenty days and he still lost weight at the same speed as contestants eating almost nothing, because lean meat without fat costs more calories than it returns.
  4. 4An A-frame you can iterate beats a log cabin you never finish. On a three-to-six-month clock, most of the calories belong in food, not chinking.
  5. 5Long solitude empties the closet. Every unpaid thank-you and unresolved slight comes back, and the modern world of distraction never lets you meet those skeletons.
  6. 6Solzhenitsyn’s camp grandmothers did not survive, but they did not let their souls get corrupted. Jonas would rather aim at being that candle than at happiness, which can be taken from you.
TRANSCRIPCIÓN

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01

Alone drops you with ten tools, no crew, and no finish date

Lex Fridman opens with the simple brutality of the show. Ten people each pick ten items from a fixed list: an ax, a saw, a frying pan, the usual primitives. Helicopters drop them in the woods with cameras they operate themselves. There is no film crew, no resupply, and no scheduled end. The last person still out there wins. The next meal does not arrive until you make it happen.

They typically start in September or October in a cold climate, so winter is already walking toward you. Jonas says the first days are overwhelming: shelter, water, a place to hunt, the knowledge that you will not eat until you shoot or catch something. After a stretch of irritation at a site that “sucked,” he stopped complaining. No amount of griping was going to help. He accepted the ground he had been given and felt himself drop back into the headspace of Siberia.

A child had pulled him out of that life. After his daughter was born the family returned to the States and never made it back to Russia; two years of raising a girl and a boy had, he jokes, made him a little soft. A few days in the Canadian woods and the softness burned off. He was in a flow state again, at home in a place that was trying to starve him.

02

The first moose walked between his legs; the second one ended the fear of starving

The first moose he saw offered a clean look on a mud flat, where yardage is hard to judge. He read a giant animal at something like thirty yards; it was more like forty. The arrow dropped between its legs. He had not grabbed his quiver, so he had one shot, and he watched the animal turn and walk off. What surprised him was how un-mad he was. It had been like seeing a dinosaur. Then he called himself an idiot, then he got more determined. Nobody else was going to make the next chance happen.

Native hunters he had lived with in Siberia used to build long fences and funnel game into a killing lane. It would cost a lot of calories, but he was not on the show to starve. He built the fence, picked berries, called moose, and ran a snare line. Lex places the kill on day 20. Jonas was pulling a rabbit from a snare when cans he had hung as an alarm clinked. He ran to the funnel exit, heart hammering, and a big moose came along the fence. At about 24 yards, quartering toward him, he took the shot instead of waiting for a perfect broadside.

The arrow punched the first lung and not the second, so the moose ran. Bubbly blood on the trail told him the animal would die if he did not botch the follow. He went back, skinned the rabbit, and sat through the slowest hour of his life. The blood trail died; he walked the path of least resistance a moose would take along the shore and found it still standing up and lying down for a couple of hours. People ask why he did not finish it. A hit animal that does not know it is being hunted will lie down and bleed in relative calm. Chase it and adrenaline can carry it somewhere you will never find, or a moose may charge. He waited. When it stood, fell, and stayed down, he walked over and put a hand on it. He calls it one of the happiest moments of his life: weeks of “you’re going to starve” gone in a touch. Modern rewards, he says, are a faint copy of that dopamine.

He is careful about what the kill means. Death is already in every meal, including plants and soy fields that erase habitat under a plow. Hunting makes the cost countable: he knows how many animals a year feed his family. On *Alone* the gratitude was physical. He wanted to hug the moose. Bow range, thirty yards or so, turns the work into a long chess game with an animal whose senses are always on. He did not grow up hunting. He learned after Russia, in Virginia, where urban archery permits and too many deer gave him fast reps, always on a target first so he would not fling an arrow into a leg.

03

A wolverine with a jug of fat put him back in second place in his own head

The moose did not feel like a win. Jonas already pictured the real contest: him against whoever else also got a moose, six or eight months out, and he was already thin. He scraped fat into a found plastic jug, set it on a little shelf, and told himself a bear would make enough noise to wake him. In the morning the jug was gone. The prints took a second to read. Wolverines were not animals he had dealt with often. They are sneakier than a bear, and this one was making a claim: the moose was his.

He went from feeling flush to feeling behind again. A moose has a lot of fat, and he thinks the edit may have overstated how little he had left, but the psychological hit was real. Every calorie felt precious because the opponent was not the woods. It was another person who might also be eating well. He had to produce again. The wolverine, he says, is a bold little animal, and he had to counter its claim.

04

He would trade the saw for a second net; the ax is the tool he would not drop

The ten items he took were an ax, a saw, a Leatherman Wave, a ferro rod, a frying pan, a sleeping bag, a fishing kit, a bow and arrows, trapping wire, and paracord. The hard part of packing is that you do not know the site. A net is useless if there is nowhere to net. His one real regret is the saw. In northern woods the trees are arm- or leg-thick; a few swings of an ax drop them. If he had been packing for season seven with hindsight, he would have left the saw and brought a net, or made one and still wanted two. The snare wire he used to the last inch: 150 or 200 snares, a rabbit or two a day, then he pulled them after the moose so he would not kill needlessly.

His incoming plan was almost a cartoon of abundance: fill a lake with fish, let them rot, drag the pile through the woods, and hunt a bear on the stink. The site had burned. Berries were scarce, so grouse and bears had gone elsewhere. Siberia had been grouse, berries, fish, and the occasional moose. Here he had to reassess, which is why he was grumpy at the start. He moved camp off the animal traffic, put the prevailing wind blowing his scent toward the water, and treated fishing and trapping as the bridge until a hunt bought three or four months. Then you do it again. That, he says, is how people lived forever, and the pressure never really leaves. Imagine a family starving if the next hunt fails.

05

Build a shelter you can live in tomorrow, and spend the calories on food

Wilderness days are not calendars. You wake with a pile of things you want, need, and should do, and you tackle them as they flow. That unscheduled life is one of the freedoms he found first on trains and later in a teepee. Shelter siting still has a checklist: flat ground, nearby firewood for months, water, some cover from wind, and enough distance from the game trails that you are not educating every moose in the valley. You also have to leave room to get creative. A cliff, a hole, a rock pile can become part of the design if you trust yourself to adapt.

He had already wintered in Siberia in a teepee, so he knew calories would keep him warm. He built a simple A-frame and reserved energy for food, improving the hut in the downtime. A log cabin looks like security; the difference between a cabin and a *warm* cabin is an immense amount of chinking, doors, and chimney work. Otherwise it is just the same temperature as outside. For three to six months he does not think the calorie bill is worth it. Lex hears a startup moral: ship a prototype, then iterate against the weather, instead of forcing a grand plan through a pipeline that does not fit.

Smoke is the misery that ruins a small shelter. With clay, mud, and rock you can stack a fireplace more easily than people think. Jonas buried tin cans to feed the fire air, then cut a hole in the A-frame and made a tarp hood he could pull down. While the fire burned, smoke went out the hood; when he was down to coals he closed it and kept the heat. He later tried an Evenki-style cache on stilts, a closed box the birds, mice, bears, and wolverines cannot reach, and he never finished boxing it in. In hindsight he should have done that on day one. Animals will teach you the lesson either way, and their tuition is your winter.

06

He left the Arctic at his walking-around weight, with months of meat still cached

The drop was about sixty kilometers south of the Arctic Circle, a country of thousands of little lakes, Dene land. In Siberia Jonas had floated the Podkamennaya Tunguska and met Ket people, maybe six hundred of them left, whose language is related to Dene: a remnant of a crossing thousands of years old. He had no thermometer and guesses it reached maybe minus thirty. He says he never felt truly cold out there. The rule is not to tough it out. If the feet go numb you stop feeling damage, then frostbite, then you cannot warm back up. He would turn around, fire, dry the boots, and go again. Cold on the face, he adds, makes you feel awake in a way heat in Austin does not.

He shot a rabbit on day one and snared more on day two. He figures about thirteen fish, including a twenty-something-pound pike on the last day, though the show did not air most of them. Lex calls him a meme of thriving rather than surviving. Jonas never let himself think he might win. He stayed pessimistic on purpose. At one point he did wonder whether the editors would be able to make it look hard. The psychological load was the open ending: six months, eight, a year, two- and three-year-old children at home, and the chance of losing after all of that. Physically he was fine.

They pulled him on day 77. He weighed what he weighs in the studio. He still had a couple hundred pounds of moose, at least a hundred pounds of fish, a pile of rabbits, and a wolverine. In his private math, day 130 or 140 was the first moment he would even entertain winning, because long, dark, boring cold would break other people. He thought he had the calories to get there, then into February, and after that it would be a contest of reserves. The misery he feared was boredom: ice three or four feet thick, no fishing, all dark. He would invent rabbit-fur skits and elaborate D-Day reenactments to make himself laugh. The camera, which had cost him a moose by getting in the way, also made him feel less alone than a winter in Siberia with no lens at all.

07

The hardest part was not knowing whether day 100 would still be a loss

Asked who lasts longer, him or Roland Welker of the rock house, Jonas goes competitive in one line: he is pretty sure he had more pounds of food. Season seven’s hundred-day cap, he thinks, wrecked the psychology that had made his own season hard. If you know the end date, a moose is a ticket to coast. If you do not, you cannot ration, you might lose at six months, and every helicopter might be coming for someone else. The previous record was 89 days. He assumed whoever was still out there had 90 and 100 in their crosshairs. When they came for him he was in genuine shock. His method was not to count days. Settle into the fact that it will go long and suck, and you may be pleasantly surprised. Count, and you disappoint yourself daily.

He ate to protect the meat from mice and birds: moose for breakfast and dinner, fish stew at lunch, and a night snack because the nights ran fourteen hours. The diet was heavy on protein; he would have liked more fat, and he mixed in things like reindeer lichen, but he felt well. Rabbit starvation he had to learn on the fly. Rabbits are almost pure protein. Eat the innards, brain, and eyes and you still spend more calories processing the rest than you get back. Twenty-eight rabbits in twenty days and he lost weight as fast as people with empty packs. Wolverines and jays taught the same lesson: they take skin, eyes, fat, and leave the lean. Fat is the gold.

08

A year on freight trains taught him to wake up with needs instead of a schedule

His Instagram handle is hobojordo, a nickname that still makes him self-conscious. The real run belonged to his brother, who at seventeen hitchhiked from Idaho to Reno, hated depending on rides, jumped a freight train, and spent about eight years on the rails, sober. When Jonas was eighteen the brother invited him along. He quit his job and spent the better part of a year running coasts, freezing at night, sleeping in the worst corners of towns. It felt like a rite of passage that modern life no longer provides. Near the end he rode alone from Minneapolis toward Spokane for a week, the first stretch of his life with nothing but his own thoughts.

What stayed with him was a freedom he would meet again in Evenki camps: you wake with no schedule, only needs, and you have to meet them. He went back to the salad-dressing plant, where a cross-eyed coworker said, “Oh, Hobo Jordo’s back.” Trains dump you in the worst part of town. The people who stop for a hitchhiker, he noticed, are poor people, because they can empathize. He met Rocco, a five-foot-seven Italian who traveled sober with his brother for years, got in fights, and once chewed out the DMV for asking him to register a car two years in a row. He met Devo, who could get a dime off anyone, collected hobo-spider bites, and still had the vitality of life running through a body wrecked by chemicals.

A dead owl fell on his brother’s head in a boxcar. They laughed that it had to be a bad omen; a worker spotted them, police stopped the train, and they sat in an Indiana jail a couple of days for trespassing. Out again, stuck four days at an abandoned factory with no slow train, they made horned hats from a roll of aluminum foil and circled a minivan at night until the driver was terrified. He tells it as boredom and youth, then names it: say yes to things that scare you, especially when you are young. Freight-train riding, he adds, is very boring. You wait hours for a train that never comes.

09

A crisis of faith bought a one-way year that turned into a life among Evenki herders

An adopted brother grew up, found his biological mother, and said thank you. That search turned up another brother about Jonas’s age who was going to Russia to build an orphanage. Jonas was in a dark stretch of faith, clinging to a verse about walking when you see no light, and to the definition that God is love. He prayed, felt a call that brought him to tears, bought a ticket, and took a one-year visa. After the orphanage went up he refused to go home with the Americans. He asked to live with Russians, and landed in a village with two families who needed hay cut, cows milked, and children watched. Both men had met in prison, found God there, and stayed close.

They kept talking about a third prison friend, a native fur trapper in the north. When that man, Yura, came through selling furs, he invited Jonas to come live with them. The visa was expiring. Jonas went home, earned money on construction, and headed north. The winter rhythm is three cabins, each with five or six trap lines. A line is a half-day walk out and a half-day back. You spend a week opening every trap, hike a day to the next cabin, and three weeks later you are back at the start, looping all winter for sable, a pine-marten cousin used for coats. Yura showed him the ropes, handed him a topographic map, and they parted for about five weeks.

He had no compass. One day-hike he walked by the sun and arrived a hundred yards from the cabin. The other trip, over the mountains, his matches soaked through and he could not melt water. He thought he was halfway; a familiar rock told him he was only at the midpoint as night came on. He left the skis in a tight burn, trudged deep snow, and wished a bear would eat him and get it over with. He chopped a hole in river ice, drank, and reached the cabin around 3 a.m. Yura charged in, said it sucked, and both men slept. In the morning they parted without asking what the other had been through. The Russian line he repeats is that the eyes are afraid and the hands do the work: one step, then you look back and the kilometers are gone. Misery, once it is over, becomes a story you can smile at.

10

Spring fencing in Siberia starved him to 155 pounds and drove an ax into his knee

The hungriest he has ever been was not on television. After trapping, Yura took him to cousins who were nomadic reindeer herders living in teepees, a life he had not known still existed. Fencing season meant thirty-kilometer loop fences of interlocking logs, cut with axes, to keep the herds in a workable range. The local men were smaller, faster, more efficient. Jonas is six-foot-three, clumsier at the work, and on the same rations. Spring in that country has almost nothing to forage; pine nuts are an autumn food. He got down to about 155 pounds. If you were the unlucky one slicing bread, the spoons and the meat were gone before you finished, and you hoped one noodle would nourish you.

He gives Lex a hand-forged Evenki-style ax, the most “badass” present the host says he has ever received. The natives told him it is the one tool you need in the wilderness, and he agrees. The head takes the handle from the top, like a tomahawk, so a loose swing tightens instead of throwing the head. It is sharpened from one side for a right-handed swing, so it bites skinny northern trees and planes sled runners and ax handles. The poll is slightly concave so it will not blow a stake’s fibers apart. A wolverine is carved on it for the thief from Season 6. In rain he would rather have that ax than a knife or saw: drop a dead standing tree, split to the dry core, shave curls, and you can fire in any weather. Fatwood, the sap-soaked wound of an old pine, will light when everything else is soaked.

Axes are dangerous, which he learned the expensive way. Building fence, the bit glanced and cut a rubber boot. They rode reindeer a few kilometers to a stump where someone had left a spare years before. Days later he cut that boot too, got angry, swung one-handed, and the ax bounced into his knee. It hit bone, split it, and cut a tendon. He was in the middle of nowhere, knew he was going into shock, ran to the teepee, and could not walk for days. He defecated in a plastic bag and rolled it under the moss. The lesson he paid for: do not work a sharp tool while you are furious. Now the ax feels like an extension of his arm.

Werner Herzog’s *Happy People: A Year in the Taiga* was filmed on the Bakhta, a neighboring tributary of the Yenisei in Siberian terms; Yura knew a man in the film. Jonas’s reading of that life is double. Out on the trap line, dependent only on yourself, the rhythm feels like what people are built for. The same people in the village can look like a dark joke: drinking, fighting, murder and suicide rates “through the roof.” Drag the drunk man into the woods and a month later he is competent again. Comfort, once you reach it, makes a lesser version of you. From *The Gulag Archipelago* he took a sharper aim than happiness. Happiness can be confiscated. Solzhenitsyn wrote of Orthodox grandmothers in the camps who died as candles, souls uncorrupted. Jonas went to Russia in his twenties thinking he was giving up career, education, and a partner. Those were the two places life later filled most: a guiding career he loves, and a family. He had aimed at love, not at the prizes.

11

His grandparents buried the genocide in one generation and left him a gift to pass on

The grandparents were Assyrians, a Christian minority from northwestern Iran. In the collapse of the Ottoman Empire during World War I, a policy of extermination hit Armenians and Assyrians. His grandmother was thirteen, his grandfather seventeen. Her father was taken out to be shot with the other men; he found he had not been hit, an alarm pulled the soldiers away, and he untied himself among the bodies, never to see the family again. She, her mother, and seven siblings were driven into the desert. The baby died. The mother collapsed and said she could not go further. The two girls picked her up. Three of them were left when they stumbled into a British camp. The sister and great-grandmother, as he understands it, never really recovered. His grandmother did.

In another village the Turks were burning houses. The grandfather’s father, in a wheelchair, stuffed a money belt at him and told him to run and not look back. He went out the back as they came in the front, turned, and saw the house on fire. He never knew what happened to his sister. The two survivors met in Baghdad, started a family, and immigrated to France just in time for the Nazi occupation. An aunt, still alive when Jonas told the story, fell in love with a French Resistance fighter. Uncle Joe called them to storm a noodle factory. Relatives threw pasta into wheelbarrows; the Nazis took the plant back and went house to house. Grandfather, already paranoid from the first catastrophe, buried the noodles in the garden. They searched the house, not the soil. The family lived on noodles and olive oil through the war years, then reached America and became, he says, the most patriotic people he has ever known. It felt like paradise.

He is one generation from all of that, and he does not carry the hate. Family reunions at the Jonas house were joy. How do you break that chain in one generation? He thinks the survivors understood how fortunate they were to be alive, and that gratitude, not numbness, is what they handed down. He watched the same posture in his father: diabetes, a crushed foot in a log splitter the first day back at work, both legs gone, then the hands, nights of pain, six last months in which Jonas delayed Russia to help him pee and roll onto a cot. In the morning the man still had encouraging words. On *Alone* Jonas wondered why the show felt, in a way, easy. It felt like a gift that had been passed, and therefore a duty to pass on.

12

Faith is a mooring against the slow slide into evil, and nature does not care if you stay

Lex asks the ugly twin of survival: why do Ottomans and Nazis do what they do? Jonas does not start from a cartoon of monsters. It is easy, he says, to feel a little cheer when the enemy is knocked back, to feed the in-group, to break a couple of eggs. One justification at a time you arrive at the unjustifiable. Faith, for him, is a mooring, a light you can shine on yourself from outside, because a compass that lives only in the self drifts. Lex adds that a great many atrocities were committed by people sure they were good, and that humility is a defense. Jonas is still astonished that an ethic of loving enemies and forgiving persecutors rose far enough for the culture to nod at it, and still aware that the same stories get used as tribal weapons.

On mushrooms he sat on a swing and saw everything as bliss except his own black hands on the chains. Love for his children was there as a shapeless feeling until the infinite, as he tells it, had to take form in order to be related to. Form means boundaries, and boundaries mean pain, misunderstanding, and death. Then he could see the kids as Illana, Altai, and Zaya, particular and exposed. That is his picture of why a formless God shows up in a story like Jesus: without a shape you cannot relate; with only the shape you get fundamentalism. A lot of people he loves have left the faith. He understands, and he also thinks a baby is going out with the bathwater. On *Alone*, with no distractions, he could play both futures out, personal and generational, and he chose to keep wrestling rather than throw the whole thing away.

Herzog’s nature is murder and indifference, and Jonas thinks that is the honest layer. He has watched a moose calf ripped up by wolves a week after it was beautiful. The woods do not care how you die. That was another fork on the show: he could live as if none of it matters, or live as if it does. He once thought he might die after inhaling a mouthful of gasoline while siphoning; in a dark hospital room he chugged cold water and vomited, wrote a note to his family, and passed out on what felt like a coin toss. What would break him is not a game-show tap-out. It is the thought of losing his children, a grief his own family history has already survived. The strange difficulty is having an exit: the voice that asks why you should not take it gets louder as things get harder. A 2012 stretch of five weeks truly alone, no camera, ended with him saying “wow” in a beautiful stand of woods and realizing it was the first time he had heard his own voice in weeks. Every skeleton comes out. He recommends the meeting.

Asked for hope, he points at what we already have: buildings, roads, airplanes, food security, modern medicine. He would not choose the native life he loved if it meant watching a family starve. We are walking a knife’s edge that gets sharper as the tools get more powerful; nuclear weapons, he argues with his more optimistic brother, only have to be used once. Lex answers that the edge itself can wake a sleepy species the way extreme cold wakes a body. Jonas’s last move is ordinary and stubborn: notice the luck, improve what is wrong, and have children as a direct relationship to the future. He leaves Lex an open invitation to the woods.

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